Hi again to all DKs and wannabes.

First of all, I'd like to apologize for not actively participating in the Death Knight discussion thread after a while. I fully intended to do so, but mostly the discussion revolves around topics that have been already covered. I was quite busy for some time as well, making up for having spent a huge amount of time just playing WoW. The backlog of stuff to reply to got to be too much for me; the others don't seem interested in participating in the discussions.

With that out of the way.. let's get to the real stuff.



The NDA on Cataclysm alpha/beta has been lifted. This means we can share anything and everything we want with anyone who's interested. Some of us have been playing it more or less for a while now and gotten familiar with how the (current) mechanics work. Some classes have gone through almost a complete overhaul, some have gotten only tweaks here and there.

This thread will focus on the changes made to Death Knights. It's a bit different to read how the new talents, the new rune system and so on are like and imagine how they would work in action than to get a straight answer.

So if you got any questions etc, feel free to ask here.


I'll be editing this post to add some kind of FAQ. I've also been writing an article about the Death Knight and Warlock changes, detailing how things will actually work in practice, what's cool and new and so on. These will be up on the site (hopefully) sometime during the next week.

Hi Synti,
you have news for the article?

Thx

At the time I figured I'd release it, some abilities got changed in a major way. Scourge Strike costing only one Unholy rune, for example - this was later fixed with Festering Strike costing BF. I'll do a rewrite soon and put it up then, as it seems like a part of the class starts to become more and more finalized.

I'm confused. Is the cata dk discussion going somewhere else? Or just nobody interested?

Well, I've got some questions.

General:
1. Is the dk finished? Not seen any changes lately.
2. new runesystem: What exactly is different to the wotlk version?
3. will every spec now go for it's own presence?
4. Are Necrotic Strike and Dark Simulacrum pvp only?

Unholy:
1. Diseases seem to last longer? And instead of refreshing with pestilence you will probably going for festering strike?
2. Is the ss change a nerf/buff or does this only have something to do with the new rune system?
3. Does Outbreak also apply ebon plaguebringer?
4. Is Outbreak the new opener? Or will this be more something for if diseases falling accidently off or fast target changes?
5. Anti-Magic Zone still for pvp only?
6. Is there a rough version of a rota? With festering strike using BF, ss using only U and reaping always present... looks interesting
7. Can you cast Unholy Frenzy to yourself?

Frost:
Didn't looked much into frost, but it seems to stay with a prio system instead of a fixed rota just like in wotlk?

Of course you're free to add your general opinion about the class itself, the new talent trees and the general feeling ;)

/edit: if those question will already be answered in your article feel free to ignore them

I'll reply a bit later to the questions. Probably in around 4-5 hours.

There was some kind of rune revamp just a moment ago (again), I'm not totally sure what was changed. I played the beta only for a short while on another computer since the necessary reinstall and the world server went up and down like a yo-yo. Didn't get to do much proper testing at all.

Currently re-downloading the beta client onto my own computer.


General:
1. Is the dk finished? Not seen any changes lately.
- I'd say no. There's tons of tweaking being done to the classes constantly right now. But if you mean if it's going to stay roughly in the same shape as it is now, I'd guess yes.

2. new runesystem: What exactly is different to the wotlk version?
- This was explained pretty extensively by the blues. Basically, you still have your 6 runes. You can however only be re-charging one rune at a time from each type. That means that you'll "always" have 3 runes empty, which only charge up if you get put out of the fight or there's a pause in the fight.

It seems to work pretty good. Only thing that bothers me slightly is the 40-50% (can't remember the exact percentage) chance of proccing up a full _any_ rune after casting Death Coil or Frost Strike. Sometimes you get lucky and you get to smash away Scourge Strikes (which cost only one UH rune), sometimes you'll end up sitting on Blood runes wondering if you should save up for Festering Strike (BF) or just hit with Blood Strike. Feels wonky, maybe it's just my inexperience with it.

3. will every spec now go for it's own presence?
- Pretty much, yes. The talents that boost presences are much more formidable now.

4. Are Necrotic Strike and Dark Simulacrum pvp only?
- Necrotic Strike is more or less PvP only. So far I haven't found any use for it in PvE - maybe there'll be that one encounter where it's useful at some point. Dark Simulacrum on the other hand works well in PvE too. Imagine Lady Deathwhisper casting one of those massive Frostbolts? You can have it shot right back at her.

Unholy:
1. Diseases seem to last longer? And instead of refreshing with pestilence you will probably going for festering strike?
- Yeah. Festering Strike uses up Blood and Frost runes. This is good, because Scourge Strike only requires one Unholy rune now. So you'll be using it just for damage anyway. You also get the new "free" one minute cooldown ability called Outbreak that slaps on both diseases. Very good for initial opener and switching away from target.

2. Is the ss change a nerf/buff or does this only have something to do with the new rune system?
- I'd say it's definitely a buff. Like said, you have a high chance after each Death Coil to proc a full rune of some type. If it's UH rune you manage to proc, you can instantly slap on an extra SS.

3. Does Outbreak also apply ebon plaguebringer?
- Yes.


4. Is Outbreak the new opener? Or will this be more something for if diseases falling accidently off or fast target changes?
- All of those. Whenever it's up and you don't have diseases somewhere, it makes sense to use it.

5. Anti-Magic Zone still for pvp only?
- Sadly, yes. I'm hoping they'll do something about that and the Raise Ally ability.

6. Is there a rough version of a rota? With festering strike using BF, ss using only U and reaping always present... looks interesting
- I guess you can pretty much do away with the concept of a rotation at this point. The whole system is much more dynamic because of the fact that you can just keep proccing up runes. It's a plain priority system at this point.

7. Can you cast Unholy Frenzy to yourself?
- I'll test it, I'm pretty sure it was possible.

Frost:
Didn't looked much into frost, but it seems to stay with a prio system instead of a fixed rota just like in wotlk?
- Like with Unholy, everything is now a priority system due to the proccing runes. What amazes me with Frost is the ~50% chance of free Howling Blast after every Obliterate. It's really, really nice.

Got the DL finished, I'll log in and check a few things out still quick.

Thanks for your answers.


I was a little bit concernd cause of the spell description on mmo-champ: "Against nonplayers, only absorbs some harmful spells.", especially about that "some". So is there also reflection on pve mobs? At the moment this may surely hard to tell how this will play out on bosses but reflection is working on normal mobs? or is this more something like the shaman totem in pve situations?


Very nice, since I do like unholy more with focus on diseases and your ghoul, but the prio system with frost is just more fun to play (in my opinion).
So prio system will be about DC, BS, SS, and FS? Something like: while keeping diseases up: SS > FS > BS > DC.


Blizzard stated that they want to have you to choose between utillity/survival talents (because survival will be more important for DDs) and that there should be different optional talents so in the end not just one viable specc. Do you think this will be accomplished? If I look at the current unholy tree there is not much you can choose from. The only "survival/ability" talent would be improved AMS since the normal ams won't fill your rune bar anymore. By just looking at the talent tree it looks like you have to choose between Magic Surpression and Necrosis.
Or will the choosing be more about how spending your points in the sub-tree? Speccing sub forst doesn't look that attractive, atm would go for sub-blood.
So with the new talent system and much less points doesn't seem for much possible talents you could go for.
Don't know how this is with speccing main-frost.


Diffrent topic: Blood tanking. Will this roughly stay the same as wotlk blood tanking? Any huge changes there?

Pretty much yeah. It seems like emptying your RP bar hoping to proc either Blood or Frost rune if you previously procced one of them is a good idea. You have plenty of time to try, as you basically have one rune plus the additional "rune tank" that keeps on filling up while trying to fish the right proc. Basically you lose nothing if you wait and try to get the matching pair for Festering Strike, unless the "rune tank" is getting close to full already. In that case, better to BS one of them away.


From what I've understood, yes. The level cap still doesn't allow to learn that particular spell. I've read a bunch of blue posts, though, and the closest equivalent is Spell Reflect. If you can reflect, you can use Dark Simulacrum too.

There was also a bit funny snippet of some blue saying they're a bit afraid what players will come up with when using DS.


As it is right now, it hasn't really been accomplished. Personally I was hoping for more one-point talents that are maybe somewhat situational, choosing between some of them. The trees don't feel like they have enough width. There's a few points you're gonna have to make real decisions on, but that's about it.

I'm personally hoping they'll add another 5 points to the talent trees - it would make builds VERY diverse imo.

Do I think it'll be accomplished? I have no idea. I do know they're doing an excellent job on a lot of stuff, though. Hard to guess.


No clue. The small bit I tried 2-3 months ago was very much out of balance. I was basically able to solo mobs from an instance with the self-healing etc, gaining ridiculous amounts of XP. It's been tweaked since.

I'll be streaming some 5-mans that we're going to do sometime very soon, I'm gonna copy a fresh DK there. I'll be tanking on some of the runs. I have absolutely no idea what will happen. :)

yay, who the hell wants to see icc25hm raids, paragon is showing us some nice 5-man-dungeon runs :D

Dirge got pretty screwy. At the moment I'm not sure why I'd want to put points into it.